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Re: FN-FORUM thought
date posted 27th September 2001 22:21
you're totally, utterly and completely missing the point.
my original argument was that your method isnt the most efficient, effective
way of improving a companies sales.
i ask again:
of those 85% of websites found via search engines, can you provide stats
about the number of leads/sales generated from this?
in addition - your search stats, can they provide me with the following?:
what type of people searched (ie, joe public, opposition, corporate)
what size of company were they searching for
what sales were generated from the search
what was the cost/gains ratio from the site?
what increased percentage of sales did the client have due to the SEO of the
site.
i am not arging about searches.
i am arguing that there are more effective and efficient ways of spending a
companys budget to increase sales and that too many companies/freelancers
have relied on things like SEO alone and that this has contributed to a lack
of trust by SME's.
if a regional-based client expects sales from his site and all you have to
offer is SEO, then for all the sales its likely to generate you might as
well sell snakeoil.
bottom line: searching aint buying.
dave ecky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Bullough" [EMAIL REMOVED]
To: [EMAIL REMOVED]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: FN-FORUM thought
Bottom line,
people do search for carpets and bathrooms and cars etc...
I've got 18 months worth of stats that prove you wrong.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL REMOVED]
[EMAIL REMOVED] Behalf Of David Eckersall
Sent: 27 September 2001 16:13
To: [EMAIL REMOVED]
Subject: Re: FN-FORUM thought
im not debating the effect of SEO for attracting people to a site - im
debating its use for *sales*
people rarely look for a regional business over the web - anybody who uses
the internet to find a local carpet seller, bathroom fittings, etc. needs to
learn how to make more effective use of their time.
on the other hand, SEO is fine for businesses that are
national/international are looking to expand in such a manner because those
type of companies people will. for these SEO will increase sales leads, for
many SME's who are regional based it wont.
never, ever, EVER confuse people looking for websites with people looking to
purchase something - they're 2 entirely distinct concepts. those 85% of
websites found via search engines - is there a breakdown of type, what the
the searcher is interested in and what involved sales?
2 sites i did were optimized to hell last year, appeared in the top 10 in
some 15 differerent search engines (KN payed searchengineers a fair whack
for this) yet generated no sales, because when KN sold the websites they
never considered *what* people searched for! hats and warehouse stickers
havent proved to be what companies/people search for...
i said this some months back, but know your audience and target
accordingly - SEO is useful in many cases, but equally is also worth jack
shit in many cases.
dave ecky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Bullough" [EMAIL REMOVED]
To: [EMAIL REMOVED]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: FN-FORUM thought
You say...
"if approached by a company like that i wouldnt even entertain the thought
of
increasing business for them that way"
...However SEO isn't about increasing business for the website design
company it is PURELY to increase business for the small business.
If you are a website designer, you need to get one fact very firmly locked
in your brain:
85%+ of people find websites through search engines!!!
You want proof???
I run a website for one of the largest carpet buying groups in UK. They have
240 members in different towns/cities. The website is set up to provide a
page for each member (i.e. town/city) and also has around 10 pages about the
group. So we have 250 HTML pages.
The group advertise heavily in specialist magazines, they have the URL on
their stationery etc.
I measure stats for them and collate them each month. The website gets an
average of 3000 page views per month. I have trackers on each page and also
record where the hit came from and what search term they used to ge there.
In addition, every member promotes the website in their own towns/cities.
Now by your estimation, the most viewed page has to be (in this case)
index.html as that is a measure of the effectiveness of traditional
advertising (advertising the URL brings them to the homepage).
But, out of 3000 page views, the index averages only 390 per month (around
15%? I haven't got my calculator). The rest of the page views are made up
from the town/city pages being ranked highly on search engines, so that a
person searching for:
carpets in some town/city
is likely to find that page on the website first (because I SEO'd it).
SEO is always sold by saying 85% of people find websites through search
engines, I at first was VERY skeptical but the example I have given above is
REAL and I've been tracking stats on the website for 18 MONTHS now.
When I took over the website, it was set up with Active Server Pages,
unfortunately, setting up this way gives a very LOW profile on the internet
in fact the way the website was first set up, a search engine could only see
10 pages as opposed to 250 as it is now.
I don't mind people ignoring my posts or posting intelligent replies, but
when you talk in terms of Search engine optimisation being a scam and then
back it up with ludicrous arguments (can't you see how stupid advertising
your internet advertisement is) I have to respond strongly.
My bathroom site will have around 400 pages and I'm working on a site for a
car leasing company that will have over 500. Covering all the bases, is the
ONLY way to get quality sales leads from the internet for small businesses
(unless you have a MASSIVE advertising budget in which case ASP or PHP or
JSP is the way to go I don't deal with this size of company - yet).
I for one NEVER use the yellow pages and if you want a VERY interesting
statistic, I also track hits for a company that has a Yell.com link (the
ones that advertise your internet advert cost £199 per annum) they get (wait
for it!) 3 hits per month. My search engine optimisation brings this same
company over 500 hits per month! I KNOW this (i'm not in the guessing
business) because the entry points are other than the index.html page.
I repeat:
For a small business website design AND search engine optimisation are EQUAL
partners.
THE reason small businesses don't want websites is that their friends have
told them that websites are a complete waste of time (unless your selling
HOME PAGES or UNTITLED DOCUMENTS of course) and that position has been
reached because website designers don't know and couldn't care less how
search engines work.
After all, 99.99% of people always use the Yellow Pages don't they???
BULLSHIT!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL REMOVED]
[EMAIL REMOVED] Behalf Of David Eckersall
Sent: 27 September 2001 02:56
To: [EMAIL REMOVED]
Subject: FN-FORUM thought
somebody the other day mentioned about cross referenceing this'n'that with
local towns for a bathroom company.
im trying to work out why since like 99.9999999% population if i require a
new bathroom i have this big yellow book downstairs that is infinately
faster than searching on msn or google.
if approached by a company like that i wouldnt even entertain the thought of
increasing business for them that way - i would explain the advantage of
having an online 'brochure', the use of joining forces with other local
businesses and advertising in the local media in conjunction with the
website. the leaflets and newspaper campaign would be there to generate new
leads witht he website offering images, prices and accolades to reinforce
the nonweb advertising.
imo too many freelancers/companies have seen the web as the only avenue in
which to help clients like this - this i feel has contributed to a lack of
trust from many SME's towards the web. many of these companies dont have
websites because they dont NEED them! the outlay required for a few extra
leads just isnt cost effective, however if used in a structured campaign you
could bring in these clients a much better cost/gains ratio.
just a thought
dave ecky
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