RE: FN-FORUM: OT - anyone watch Questiontime last night

date posted 10th June 2005 18:59

Didn't' say I was confusing cause & effect, merely pointing out various
situations.

It's a bit like the congestion charging, public transport is crap so we
don't use it, but it won't get better, either public transport or
congestion until we do, so what's the best approach - carrot or stick ?


Looks to be a fair amount of desert here.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-desert-map.htm

And yes, there are large areas of grassland for much of the year they're
not very green.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/thematic-maps/world-natural-vegetation.htm


There were plenty of natural resources (probably still are) in Zimbabwe
but for political reasons as you've said we're not *currently* involved.
Doesn't' seem to be a lot different to Rwanda / Bosnea to me. Could be
wrong.

And no, obviously not all of Africa, but have worked in South Africa
(during the end of Aparteit and the only trouble we saw was "black on
black" tribal fighting) and been to The Gambia (yes, on holiday). Also
from my background in mining I know a large number of people who have
worked in various parts of Africa.

I'm sure there's many more aspects of the discussion which I'm not aware
of so might have a view that's biases to what I know and understand.




-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL REMOVED] [EMAIL REMOVED] On Behalf Of Marc
Wilson
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 6:30 PM
To: Andy Macnaughton-Jones
Subject: Re: FN-FORUM: OT - anyone watch Questiontime last night


In freelance.forum, (Andy Macnaughton-Jones) wrote in
[EMAIL REMOVED]

>
>I have to say that I partially agree and always have done. People=20
>displaced by wars that we've funded the weapons for notwithstanding,=20
>you cannot have a situation where historically people had large=20
>families so that natural selection would maintain a "healthy balance"=20
>because so many of the children would die of disease in childhood but=20
>now they still want huge families but all the Western healthcare to=20
>keep all of the children alive.

Erm- confusion of cause and effect, I believe. They want large families
so that they have lots of workers for their land; mostly they are still
doing subsistence agriculture. The best ways to reduce family sizes
are:

1) Increase the status of women. Once women have the economic and
social clout to refuse to be brood mares, the average family size
plummets.

2) Increase prosperity. Once people get a taste of prosperity, they
realise that having lots if kids is not such a grand idea.

>Famine & drought are a natural situation in such a hot and arid=20
>continent, it cannot support developments the size that you'd see in=20
>the West.

It could support a lot more if organisations like the World Bank did not
coerce countries into switching from subsistence crops to cash crops,
especially those like cotton which is extremely thirsty. Cash crops
also encourage farmers to overwork the land, leading to dustbowl
conditions.

Much of Africa is not arid. Parts of it are very fertile.

>The Catholic Church is partially to blame for not promoting the safe=20
>sex message - both in terms of not generating large quantities of=20
>children and also the spread of HIV.

Worse than that- the Catholic church tells people that condoms are no
use against HIV.

> Historically it
>didn't help that western countries ravaged the natural resources but in

>the main when they handed the countries back they had systems of=20
>government and institutions in place that would have let them develop=20
>further. Now you get people like Mugabwae in - where's the regime=20
>change their Tony ?

No oil for an incentive. Some areas have diamonds (e.g. Sierra Leone)
and guess what? We find we *can* intervene.

>And don't write off peoples debts so that they can just rack up some=20
>more on planes, mercs and swiss bank accounts. There has to be=20
>something in place to stop that happening - what I don't know, but=20
>don't just give them the money and expect it not to all happen all over

>again.
>
>And yes, I have been to Africa and seen what it's like,

What, all of it? It's a bloody great continent- more varied than Europe
in terms of geology, climate etc. Don't judge the entire continent
based on a quick safari or a trip to Tangiers.

>and I do
>understand why people want to try and escape the situation and all that

>it entails so I'm not speaking from an entirely uneducated point.
>
>That's just my opinion, you're entitled to your own.
>
>Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL REMOVED] [EMAIL REMOVED] On Behalf Of Dan=20
>Norcott
>Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 5:34 PM
>To: Andy Macnaughton-Jones
>Subject: Re: FN-FORUM: OT - anyone watch Questiontime last night
>
>
>Martin Kellie wrote:
>> They say 120,000 people die in Africa each month as a result of these

>> debts and the poverty it creates but if all these people lived=20
>> wouldn't the world be a tad busy? Perhaps stopping them breeding for=20
>> 10 years might be a more valid way to save money and lives... they=20
>> have the energy to make sweet love but lack the enery to plough a=20
>> field or walk to a more sensible location in the world that has water

>> and a climate suitable for supporting themselves. I'm not being cruel

>> here or anything but a lot of Africa seems like a pretty stupid place

>> to try and live given it's reputation for drought and stuff, by now
>
>Good lord - were you posting that as an example of aberrant=20
>c*ntishness, or is it something you (even partially) agree with? I=20
>can't remember ever reading such a stream of horse shit.
>
>--
>http://www.dandylogic.com
>
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--
Marc

"The future is here already. It's just unevenly distributed." =20
(William Gibson)

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